Smoking - worth the cancer?

[Stevil, yo]

Alright, everyone. I've been wondering what your thoughts on smoking were. Weither or not you think it's a road to a painful death, or a magical trip of pleasure. Everyone knows how it can cause lung cancer, and makes it harder to breath. And most, if not all people know how good it feals to take a soothing hit of a tobacco stick. Are you for it or against it? Do you think the world would be alot better off if smoking was banned? Do you smoke?
I did the on and off smoking thing for who knows how long, and usually only had a cigarette about once a week to once a month. Recently, It's become a once a day thing (or should I say once a night). I dunno, I should care about my lungs a bit more, but it feels really good. I smoke anywhere from Marbz to Newports.
What do you guys think about smoking/smokers?

[implode]

am i <i>for it or against it?</i>

it's not that kind of decision. you can't go "yay, smoking!" without being an asshole, and you certainly can't say "smoking, in all its forms and incarnations, is a cancer on society itself and should be extinguished" without, at the very least, being heartless. as a pack a day + smoker i can testify that smoking is a <i>disease</i>, like obesity and enjoying talk radio. after enough voluntary exposure to something you enjoy, the right type of person can grow dependant on such things to provide them with the jollies they're so inept at deriving from anything new. it's ridiculous to weigh the pros & cons of smoking and still light up a cigarette after doing so, but millions of people manage, so just being a hardass and saying "smoking is bad GRRRR" is not going to be enough to change anyone's mind. it just gets people angry that you dare even mention it to them, as if they've never considered it before.

i won't smoke around people who ask me not to, but otherwise, i think i should have the right to kill my unborn baby if i want to. banning smoking entirely is like making the nation's mind up for them, and you'll hardly ever find me on the side of doing that. we as a humanity have pretty much made all the society-encompassing decisions already, and inventing new ones is just an exercise in arrogance. we have laws against killing people, sure, but that makes sense, because 40% of the population doesn't just go around killing people anyway no matter what anyone has to say about how awful a practice it is. when you find that there's almost an equal percentage of people against your plan as there is for it, it's time to stop pushing your agenda so hard and reevaluate your stance. when it's time to make society altering decisions, we as a SOCIETY will stand up and demand it, not just the half of the society that happens to have a few more ambivelent, bribe-able friends.

[rocketgal]

my granny decided smoking was worth the cancer. and died from it long before her time.

its a pretty stupid thing to do imo.

[Shiv]

We all die eventually, in my opinion smokers smell bad. I don't like to be too near them, I don't like being in closed spaces with them and I will never ever go out with a smoker ever again. Most people I know who smoke go outside to do so, but I went to a party about a week ago in a house where everyone smoked and I left with what sounded like a serious cough (though it cleared up after a day or so). It made me really really apreciate the smoking bans in pubs nowadays.

Also, the girl who used to have one of the most beautiful voices I've ever heard (people would turn and look at her and just shut up whenever she used to start singing to herself), no longer sings because smoking killed her voice. That, I think, is a crime.

[Davey Rootbeer]

Smoking is PR's greatest success.

The cost? Oh, only a few million people.

I think it was John Smith, or some other palefaced settler that got punted out of england, wrapped around the end zone, and landed somewhere in virginia, that first saw the rolling fields of tobacco, and decided, "Hey! Let's light this stuff on fire, and inhale the fumes!"

so yeah, smoking's been around forever, in some form. native americans smoked the peace pipe deal (which also doubled as a hatchet: so it could kill you slowly, or quickly. how very convenient!)

and when public relations really hit it's niche in the early 1900's, Eddy Bernays was representative of the tobacco industry. as any good PR guy would do, he wanted to expand his target demographic, increase sales, and convince people to put rolled leaves in their mouths and light them on fire. (oh, my!)

Eddy had a little problem. Well, smoking was taboo among women at the time, because it was considered to be, among others, a "men-only thing". So, he saw a whole new audience (what a visionary!) and during the 1929 easter day parade (which was viewed in the piublic spotlight, and covered by all the newspapers/magazines, etc), he distributed to each of the the debutantes, plus a small fee, cigarettes, so they would walk and smoke and be captured in glamorous photos.

of course, his plan worked, and smoking became glamorized among young women seeking to become as hawt as the next debutante.

and then! he lined up a team of "neutral experts" (which were actually notable scientists who were "in" on it) to applaud all the benefits of smoking, and draw attention away from the fact that he had basically just won free publicity and glorification for the tobacco companies.

oh! and there were studies done in the 30's touting the dangers of the tobacco, the carcinogens in those sticks o'puff, and Eddy took one look at the reports that listed effects on health of cigarettes, turned it around and highlighted the good points out of context (oh, my!), so, smoking became healthy, as it was "soothing for the throat, and for maintaining a trim wasitline" (of course, these being quite true, however, stretched such largely out of context while leaving the important stuff out. That's PR for ya!)

Through the 40's and 50's, smoking became associated with "cool" and "sexy" James dean, Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe lit up on screen and on the field. you think there was't a little voice in their ears telling them if they put a stick of tobacco in their mouth, they would be "rewarded"? Well, there was.

so, basically, no one, NO ONE starts smoking because they like the taste. it's because we're exposed to media images, propeganda, or "nostalgia" (as it's probably called now) of smoking being "cool".

Just finished a wild, passionate sex romp? Light up! It's the cool thing to do.

Thanks, PR! for telling us consumers what we like and what we want to do! How would we know otherwise?

[beavo]

there's absolutely no reason why someone should start smoking. it's not like it's forced on you from birth, and if you don't start you'll be hung, drawn, and quartered or anything. there's no excuse strong enough for a smoker to give as to why they started. fine if you want to kill yourself, but you won't get any sympathy.

[implode]

were we looking for any? if i'm battling lung cancer one day and all anyone has to say is "i can't believe this happened to you. how unexpected. god, what did he do to deserve this?" i'll be pissed that i'm dying in the company of fools.

[Takker]

smoking is absolutely disgusting. my mom does it and me and my brother have been asking her to stop for years. the thing that turns me off the most is the smell. if we happen to be in the car with her while my mom is smoking, it blows all through the car even with the window open. more than once I've had it accidently blown in my face, making me gag. then her breath stinks all the time, so she constantly chews on mints. not to mention all the health risks and the risks she's putting on me and my brother and my dad for second hand smoke. I understand that when she was young, there weren't so many anti-smoking things taught, but she should know better now. she's tried to quit twice, I think, but she always starts back up again. the problem is that she enjoys smoking and doesn't truely want to stop.

you hear stories about how kids smoke because their parents do. I can't understand that. how could they see how disgusting smoking is and still want to start? I'll never smoke because I know how gross it is.

[Takker]

Io, it's not in bars. it's in my own house, and in the car.

[Takker]

I don't notice it too much in the house because I'm either upstairs or in the basement, but I can always smell it in the car because I'm sitting right next to her and it blows past my face

[implode]

do you ask her nicely not to? or do you just reaffirm that "mom, GOD. that's SO DISGUSTING." because there's a time and a place for negative reinforcement, and it's generally not when you're asking someone to do something for you. unless you're a drill sergeant.

[Takker]

no, we ask nicely. if I were to suddenly yell at her that she has disgusting habits, she'd get pissed.

[Squid!]

when i first started smoking it was recreational. i just liked the nice little nicotine buzz. some people can keep at that, i know a lot of social smokers who don't have to have a cigarette but won't say no when you offer them one. after a while though, i started to become dependant. quitting smoking is very, very difficult for some people. it's especially difficult when you don't really want to, but feel pressured to by the people around you. cigarettes became more of a comfort thing for me. feeling emotionally stressed or down? light up. then it turned into, bored out of your mind? light up. now it doesn't really matter how i feel, i just constantly crave a cigarette. now i wish i hadn't started, just because feeling dependant or controlled by something never feels good. if someone asked me, "hey Ashlee, i've been thinking of starting smoking, in your opinion do you think it would be a good thing in the long run?" i'd say of course not. you're going to die. but saying that smoking will inevitably cause your death isn't fair because who knows, you might get run over while playing tag with a semi before cancer has the chance to develop.

i'm with implode on the, "you can't ban smoking and make people's choices for them" bandwagon. i don't think it would make a positive impact on the public. can you imagine what traffic would be like? that's right, let's take away the smoker's nicotine and then let them drive. let's see how many lexus' they can ram into before they realize what a waste their life has been and start crying. i've been around smokers trying to quit. it isn't pretty. i suppose we could all switch to chewing tobacco or start popping nicorette like nobody's business, but it just wouldn't be the same. and besides, if we were to ban smoking on the basis that it's harmful than we'd have to get rid of alcohol too, and something tells me that that might not go over too well. you have to let the people feel like they're doing something naughty and getting away with it.

it's like iodine said, if you don't want to be around the smoke, avoid the smokers. there are plenty of smoke-free joints to hang around. Takker's situation is a little different, though. it sucks that your mom isn't willing to quit for you guys, and since she is your mother and you live in her house, there isn't much you can do about it. i guess the most you can do is ask her not to smoke in the car with you.

[Rory Storm]

I love Rhode Island for the one simple fact that all restaurants and bars are smoke free. I don't like smoking, but some people I know smoke, so I can't always avoid it, but I voice my opinion. I think smoking should take the same road as the other drugs: Make it illegal. But they won't because of the money that it makes.

[implode]

I think smoking should take the same road as the other drugs: Make it illegal. well, what about chocolate?

junk food serves no distinguishing purpose other to kill you and make you feel good, so why doesn't anybody speak out against that? oh, because one chocolate bar isn't so bad, right? because we all need our little rewards every now and then, right?

well, cigarettes are the same goddamned thing. they AREN'T in the same catagory as "other drugs" because they do not impair your cognitive abilities in the slightest, unless you drop them on your lap, which is pretty much the same thing as a chocolate bar. there's always people who take these rewards to the extreme and make their whole goddamned lives a big reward party - whether it be the obese or the pack-a-day smokers. but are we just going to outlaw everything and force people to live in moderation, or are we going to be human? as long as we have the means to keep producing these things in mass quanitity, and as long as those who choose to indulge in them are made aware of the potential adverse effects of use, any involvement beyond that in their affairs is MEDDLESOME and therefore DEPLORABLE.

[Rory Storm]

Actually, they tried to fight it, but then the state fought back with the simple reason: The workers didn't want to get second hand smoke cancer from working there. And I agree, smoking a dirty, dirty habit. But I can think of worse ones.

Well, yes, junk food is bad and all, but I just don't like smoking because of reasons and moral observations. When I was first born my parents did not know if I was going to live because of a lung infection caused by inadvertantly being around my aunt while she smoked. So Since then, I have vowed never to smoke.

Oh and chocolate doesn't make you smell bad, and your make your teeth yellow.

[Rory Storm]

I didn't make the laws here. I just don't like the choking sensation I get when I am around people who smoke. My throat closes up. Even in the non smoking section of a restaurant I can still smell the smoke. And I don't like it.

[implode]

Well, yes, junk food is bad and all, but I just don't like smoking because of reasons and moral observations. When I was first born my parents did not know if I was going to live because of a lung infection caused by inadvertantly being around my aunt while she smoked. So Since then, I have vowed never to smoke. well. thank god you have "reasons" on your side, eh? that's certainly a reason to vow never to smoke, and completely understandable, but is that a reason to outlaw it in all its forms and incarnations? maybe a "don't smoke around babies, you fucking nincumpoop" law might be in order for anyone retarded enough to do so, but then, who on earth would have a problem with that? it's when you make sweeping mandates over <i>very</i> specific issues that people suffer unjustly.

[implode]

Oh and chocolate doesn't make you smell bad, and your make your teeth yellow. what the fuck? okay. let's get started on banning painting, too, and institute a "brush twice" policy allowing cops to kick down your door and measure the levels of flouride in your mouth at any given occasion.

[Rory Storm]

I just grew up around parents who shunned smoking. To me it is a nasty, gross habit. So because you smoke I can't speak out about it? About how I feel? And yet you can? I just don't like it. I don't like how it clings to your clothes and you can't escape it. It makes me feel dirty, so I avoid it. And I like how they passed the clean air act here in RI. So what? I don't mind when people smoke outside, it disperses, it goes away. Inside it clings and stains, and I don't like that.

[implode]

buddy, you can speak out about anything you want to. but when you say "smoking should be made completely illegal" you should have a little more than "i don't like it, okay?" on your side.

and you got personal, too. we all have problems, you don't see me getting personal about what your bad habits do to YOUR body.

[implode]

P.S. - iodine DOESN'T smoke.

[implode]

let me put my cigarette down in my lap, first.

[Rory Storm]

Oh but in RI they did make it illegal. Illegal to smoke inside buildings. All buildings, well buisnesses. Not homes and stuff, and I agree with that law.

[Rory Storm]

Hmm, go spend your hard earned money on smokes and leave me alone:(. Or better yet, I'll go spend my hard earned money on smokes and give them to you. Because I try to be a nice guy, then things go wrong:(. :)

[implode]

Oh but in RI they did make it illegal. Illegal to smoke inside buildings. All buildings, well buisnesses. Not homes and stuff, and I agree with that law. okay. so how about the street? can we still smoke outside buildings? because i've read all sort of blogs and shit where the people who were instrumental in getting cigarettes kicked out of buildings (they're small and don't put up much of a fight) and now complaining about how they have to PASS smokers on their way inside the buildings. what the fuck do you people <i>want</i> from us? should i wade 30 meters into the south pacific before daring to light my cigarette, being ever vigilant for nearby whales who might potentially have asthma?

i mean, i understand not liking something, but walking past a smoker is about 2 seconds worth of displeasure, and are you guys seriously telling me that you want the <i>authorities to deal with that for you?</i>

[Rory Storm]

Honestly, I think they should have smoking only places. Like if you don't want to ingest it at all, don't go there, but they did it because of the workers complaining. All of the north east is like this, too. Well, most of it, I believe.

You can smoke on the street, yes. Some places even have little huts that smokers can go into and smoke there during the winter and they are heated, but because of certain regulations they aren't buildings, so that is the loop hole or whatever.

[implode]

Hmm, go spend your hard earned money on smokes and leave me alone:(. Or better yet, I'll go spend my hard earned money on smokes and give them to you. Because I try to be a nice guy, then things go wrong:(. :) i still think you're a nice guy, this hasn't changed my opinion of you in the slightest. but outlawing a practice that you don't like BECAUSE you don't like it really isn't the nicest thing in the world, you know?

[Squid!]

rory, chocolate may not make your teeth yellow but it does make them rot and fall out which might be good as far as the tooth fairy is concerned but not so good if you like you know... eating.

i can understand why you might be upset about having smoke in your face while you're trying to eat, but most places are pretty careful about keeping the smokers and nonsmokers separate. and like i said before, there are plenty of smoke-free joints.

[implode]

hey squidlee, got a lite?

what kind of cigarettes do you smoke, anyway?

[implode]

You can smoke on the street, yes. Some places even have little huts that smokers can go into and smoke there during the winter and they are heated, but because of certain regulations they aren't buildings, so that is the loop hole or whatever. that would be rad. i've never seen such a thing here in CT. i'm from RI originally, though, so hey... where?

[Meat Load]

okay. so how about the street? can we still smoke outside buildings? Of course you can smoke in the street. The idea behind those laws is that you don't bring a lighted object into a building that can potentially burn down.


Anyways, The D.A.R.E. program has programmed kids to hate smoking without understanding why. I personally don't like the idea of smoking, but other people can do whatever they want with their lives, in my opinion.

I probably said something here that was already covered.

[Squid!]

do i have a light? HA! never. i've been lighting mine on the gas stove for the last two weeks. it always makes you feel like you might blow your eyebrows off.

i smoke reds unless i can't find enough money, then it's pall mall or whatever's on sale. yourself?

[Rory Storm]

Uh, one or two hospitals have done it for their workers, in Pawtucket and Providence. And few supermarkets, the higher end ones. I don't like smoking, but I feel kind of bad seeing people stand outside in the freezing rain smoking, I pity them:(.

[Takker]

I don't think it should be illegal or anything. I mean, it would be nice to have the majority of the population smoke free, but completly obliterating it is a tad extreme. I think people should just go outside and smoke. that way, buildings don't stink and people who don't want to smell it can be happy. and like Implode said, if you walk past a smoker, you only take a breath before you've past them. so it's not a huge deal. though yesterday, I happened to be walking behind a guy smoking a cigar. that's like, the worst smell ever.

[Meat Load]

My dad smokes cigars sometimes.

It makes anyone look like Fidel Castro.

And I'm pretty sure it makes them smell like him too.

[Takker]

the one thing I cannot stand is cigar smoke. I'd rather inhale the smoke of a thousand cigarettes instead. it's the most awful stench

[Meat Load]

what.

i don't think so man. that is even more ridiculous that vehement anti-smokers for health reasons. a cigarette isn't even hot enough to catch gasoline on fire.I wouldn't know.

But better safe than sorry, y'know?

I mean, generally fire + wood is not the best idea, even if it is a small amount of fire.

[implode]

Of course you can smoke in the street. The idea behind those laws is that you don't bring a lighted object into a building that can potentially burn down.


Anyways, The D.A.R.E. program has programmed kids to hate smoking without understanding why. I personally don't like the idea of smoking, but other people can do whatever they want with their lives, in my opinion.

I probably said something here that was already covered. nonsense. the idea behind those laws is that some people don't like cigarette smoke. if that were the idea behind those laws, the signs wouldn't say "for the courtesy of your fellow passengers/coworkers/grasshoppers, smoking is prohibited blah blah blah." your interpretation of the law actually makes sense, i guess, but it's <i>awfully</i> hard to start a fire with a cigarette, unless you fall asleep with it. hell, i've actively TRIED to start fires with cigarettes and failed. but. yeah. your post makes sense, which makes sense, because you generally make sense.

do i have a light? HA! never. i've been lighting mine on the gas stove for the last two weeks. it always makes you feel like you might blow your eyebrows off.

i smoke reds unless i can't find enough money, then it's pall mall or whatever's on sale. yourself? eewwww girlie. reds. bloogh. kool's, all the way. if i'm killing myself, i'm riding the sweet peppermint reaper to the grave.

haha. i remember trying to light my smokes on the electric stove. it was... hm. barely worth remembering, now that i think about it. :/

[Rory Storm]

Iodine, cigarettes cannot catch gasoline on fire, but you drop a cigarette onto a blanket in bed, and things get hot. because there are fibers each one lights from the source and spreads, while getting hotter, and then it keeps spreading. Or even a rug. It can happen there too.

[implode]

Uh, one or two hospitals have done it for their workers, in Pawtucket and Providence. And few supermarkets, the higher end ones. I don't like smoking, but I feel kind of bad seeing people stand outside in the freezing rain smoking, I pity them:(. wow. i was born in pawtucket. unless information for my moosey headstone when these cancer sticks finally claim this victim.

some cigars smell really nice, actually. you ever smell a black & mild? smells like smoldering vanilla.

[implode]

Iodine, cigarettes cannot catch gasoline on fire, but you drop a cigarette onto a blanket in bed, and things get hot. because there are fibers each one lights from the source and spreads, while getting hotter, and then it keeps spreading. Or even a rug. It can happen there too. well, you lazy fuckers shouldn't be bringing BLANKETS to work, then. :P

[implode]

damn. off by a minute. :(

[Meat Load]

Should I make a "sleeping on the job" joke or would that be lame beyond all reason?

[implode]

if it's lame, i've already been there and confirmed it with a smiley.

[Rory Storm]

What about people who work in a blanket factory?

what about them?

[implode]

What about people who work in a blanket factory?

what about them? yeah, and what about the people who coat themselves in kerosene twice daily?

are we the most insensitive people ever or what?

[Squid!]

i can't do the menthol thing, makes me feel like i'm petrifying my lungs. i love cloves though, that right there's a little slice of heaven. i'd buy them more often but more poor little Sonic paycheck just doesn't supply the funds when you smoke a pack a day.

[implode]

now i want you to come to moosecon even more, just so it won't be a mass exodus of all boys everytime somebody needs a smoke.

cloves hurrrrt. are you even supposed to inhale them? because i did, and it reminded be of what inhaling a jar of opened safety pins must feel like.

[Takker]

yeah, and what about the people who coat themselves in kerosene twice daily?

are we the most insensitive people ever or what?
and you fail to recognize those poor souls that play in the haystacks. come on

[Squid!]

haha, smoking cloves reminds of smoking a candle but they're so delicious. i can't resist their magic. plus they snap and crackle when you take a drag so it's sorta like smoking pop rocks. it's a good time all around once you get used to the pain.

oh, we would have oodles of fun smoking together. i'd show you the in the nose and out the mouth trick. do you know any dazzling smoking tricks mister implode?

[Takker]

can you blow multicolored smoke rings and comical shapes in letter form?

who r u?

[implode]

do i ever. i can do more tricks with my mouth than i... um. well. let's just go with that.

i can do the "french inhale" (what you are referring to.)
i can do a backdraft (which is pushing the cloud of smoke out of your mouth and sucking it all back in, and somehow managing to do this <i>gracefully.</i>)
i can blow smoke rings (whoopdee-doo, i know, but...)
i've been working on blowing smoke HEARTS and shooting "arrows" through them with my nose (which i will never master due to improbability ratios vs. early mortality rates.)
and finally, i can take three drags of a cigarette and make the last drag <i>disappear.</i> (this is simply magic and therefore cannot be explained inside the comfort of parenthesis.)

this topic made me smoke my cigarettes wayyyy too quickly. i'm down to less than half a pack and i have a bunch of hours of awakeness left to go. :(

are you allowed to smoke inside?

[Squid!]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/fishdonthaveeyebrows/cat.jpg

well, not so much multi-colored, but you know how it is.

the backdraft is damn near impossible for me. i end up standing up and making this awesome fish face while i try to suck the smoke back in like an out-of-control vacuum hose attachment. i'd like to see the disappearing smoke trick though, sounds intriguing. where DOES he put all that smoke Magaret?

i can get away with smoking inside because my parents smoke. no one can tell the difference.

[BeastDad1987]

I am the worst social smoker ever. I have my own pack (yay cloves!), but I'll only smoke them if I'm really stressed out or I'm with friends who smoke. Most of my guy friends smoke, so yeah, if I'm with them, I'll pull out my own cigarette. (And they say, "Ew cloves" and I laugh in their face.)

Everything else I'd say has pretty much already been said. I was kinda surprised to hear that restaurants still have smoking and non smoking sections; we haven't had those in California for a long time and we probably never will. I don't even think you can smoke in bars, but I really wouldn't know. Yeah.

[Stevil, yo]

Wow, I'm glad my topic has gotten so far.
Squid, you do realise that wasn't tobacco in that caterpillars bong, right?
Anyways, +10hp for 'plode, squid, n'iodine.
EDIT: and Uchan.
EDIT: and Davey!

[implode]

I was kinda surprised to hear that restaurants still have smoking and non smoking sections; we haven't had those in California for a long time and we probably never will. NOFX wrote a song about it, and it pissed me off because fat mike is like the most objectionable guy imaginable and he's chastising us for smoking:

what i scream about, can't get the stink out
catch on my tongue, save it in my lungs
fuckin' vegans smoking, keep us all in chokin'

big ol' round of applause for california laws
act like human beings, instead of europeans
i was a singer/dancer, now i've got lung cancer

GET THE STINK OUT etc.

coming from the guy who wrote "drugs are good" and "puke on cops." :robot:

[Davey Rootbeer]

Uchan's promised to take me to a Hookah one day. I'm hoping it's self-explanitory.

There are lots of people who are allerngic to cigarette smoke. But there's also lots of people allerngic to cats and dogs. when's the last time you heard a proposition about those being banned in public?

I don't remember if it was mentioned in here, but there's laws being shuffled around in Jersey that are aimed to ban smoking in your own car, which i find ridiculous. It's your own personal property, a vehicle, so it would be similar to banning people from smoking inside their own houses. i think the main reasoning of the law would be to quash the possibility of them forest fires started when someone (on the passenger side, since the driver can only reach out ther LEFT window) throws a cig out the window of a speeding car. But still. Inside your own car.

New law just went into place at my campus last semester, you can't light up within 50 feet of a school building. Now, see, they gone and enacted that law BEFORE they decided to move the ashtrays and what-not a good 50 feet from the buildings, decided it was asthetically unpleasing, and promptly moved them back.

So, Hudson Valley winters, with ice and snow, smokers get to stand in a little circle, unshielded from the elements, huddling together to stay warm as they light up only to have it go out 10 seconds later by means of snowflake activity.

so of course everyone breaks the law, and the cops don't enforce it much because they were all ex-hippies in the 60's and 70's. No complaints, no problem. and a smile lights up my face.

Oh, don't get me started on drugs. Want to ban cigarettes? Might as well ban coffee, tea, aspirin, tylenol, ibuprofrin, and novocain. Because, drugs are BAD, right? _{Think they should have left pot alone, too. but that's another story. and perhaps the reason why they don't let people smoke in their rooms anymore.}

I'm starting to become more sensitive to all these laws i see around that infringe on personal rights.

Hmm. Io, Impy, maybe it's all that time we spent in new hampshire.

Live free, or die, indeed.

[tater]

second hand smoke is a fucking joke.

do you know what you are inhaling when you inhale the smoke from a cigarette in the air?

nothing. a smokers lungs take out 99% of the carcinogens out of the smoke. you are inhaling burning paper and water vapor.

it takes 50, 60+ years for avid smokers to develop lung cancer inhaling the full on carcinogens. how long do you think it will take for someone who is huffing the 1% byproduct?
Bullshit. I've got a chronic cough that is a direct result from the 23 years I've spent inhaling my mothers second-hand smoke. It's not the exhaled smoke, it's the stuff that comes from the lit end of the cigarette that makes the cloud around the somkers heads that is so damn toxic. It's not a fucking joke.

Making smoking illegal is just ignorant. It wouldn't solve anything and even make matters worse. Hello, can anyone say Prohibition? I DO agree with the smoking bans in buildings. I'm sorry, but it IS a personal choice and if you want to choose to smoke, then you have to deal with the consequences and if that includes being a little uncomfortable as you do it ... well doesn't life just suck? It is your choice to smoke those, so the least you can do is smoke them in an un-enclosed space so others don't have to endure them.

And as for the walking by smokers thing ... yeah people need to grow up. that's sad. As long as the smokers aren't deliberately grouped by the doorway or anything, it's the same as inhaling the smog that that passing SUV just spewed into the world.

[BeastDad1987]

Stevil, you do realize that that's a hookah, and he is smoking flavored tobacco?

[Shiv]

Few things bug me more than a self righteous smoker(or someone being self righteous about smoking). I like going to my dingy rock bar, drinking beer, dancing till I drop, talking with my friends and going home at 3 in the morning without having to deal with stinging eyes and deep cough for the next few days. There's barely a pub in Ireland without a nice beer garden anymore, and I think that rocks personally. A lot of the beer gardens are heated and/or roofed over too.

I think smokers should have a place to smoke, it would be... mean to just ban smoking in pubs and not give them some alternative and to be honest, the smoke was never that big a problem for me that I didn't go to pubs anyway (though admittedly I used to spend a lot more time in the beer garden :P ). However, I'm fucking delighted I can enjoy a night out in my local with my closest friends without people smoking near me. (And they finally fixed that drainage problem that was making the back stairs area smell like urine too, yay for Fibbers!)

I'm also glad that most of my friends don't smoke, because it does devide people. :(

[implode]

so i take it you won't be hanging out with us when i finally walk to ireland, then?

[exemplary citizen]

UCHAAAAAN.

Dear, we need to actually meet up at some point, since our ComicCon scheme fell through. And Davey's suggestion makes me think that we should do so over a hookah. Know of any good places around here?

[robot]

i smoke cigarillos maybe once every two weeks. i really don't like to smoke cigarettes, though. i can't appreciate the flavor of tobacco that way... eh.

i'd much rather smoke a couple bowls of pot than a cigarette any day

on hookas:
i am looking into buying a hookah at the very reasonable price of fifty bucks, but it only has one staw, which takes part of its novelty away. however, i have heard that smoking with two people through a hookah can be a hassle anyway. opinions?

for those who might not know... vaporizers area carcinogen free way to smoke, so... smoking doesn't always kill, kids.

[implode]

on hookas:
i am looking into buying a hookah at the very reasonable price of fifty bucks, but it only has one staw, which takes part of its novelty away. however, i have heard that smoking with two people through a hookah can be a hassle anyway. opinions? yeah, it's not really worth the trouble with more than one tube. you're all vying for the same smoke so it fucks with the air pressure inside the chamber, and you can't really tell if you're getting a decent hit or not (which you usually aren't.) it's like sucking on a clogged bowl. or, rather, it's like competing with your friends to see who can suck the <i>hardest</i> on a clogged bowl. they are very pretty, yeah, but they're generally the kind of thing you'd only want if you have a display case or something.

[robot]

yeah, thats what i was thinking. if i get one, it will mostly be a gift for my girlfriend. she wants one, but i don't know.. shes never even tried one before. we could try one out at the weird foreign food restraunt but it costs 7 dollars and she doesn't smoke tobacco at all.

[Stevil, yo]

Stevil, you do realize that that's a hookah, and he is smoking flavored tobacco?

I do now.

I did not know what a hookah was. It's great to learn new things.
cuz knowledge is power!

[robot]

the caterpillar from alice in wonderland is most assuredly not smoking flavored tobacco.

it's like when you go into a headshop and refer to everything in non cannabis terminology and say "bowlpeice" instead of bowl and your friend with ID buys the peice you think is the coolest

and the clerk knows you are underage and that you certainly don't carry the intentions of "for tobacco use only"

its just all understood

[Shiv]

Aw 'plode, I like smokers when they're not smoking, and if they are I like them outside and downwind. Come to our country. You'll like it here, I swear :D It's full of grass...

[Meat Load]

In the middle east, those "hooka" things are very common, unless they're not the thing I'm thinking of.

But anyways, there they're called "argile" there (pronounced ar-geel-eh), and the american tourists call them "hubbly-bubbly". They give off scented smoke, sometimes in crazy-ass flavors like watermelon or vanilla. They're supposedly the equivalent of smoking twenty packs of cigarettes at once, but no one really seems to mind.

I am a goldmine of useful information.

[Shiv]

I took a drag of something like that (apple flavour) in a restaurant in spain, but I think it was supposed to be pretty weak actually.

[Davey Rootbeer]

wow. Part of this dream i had was Implode giving me this dime bag that was like, bursting at the seams, and i had to close it and i spilled 2-3 ounces of the stuff on some sink at some bowling alley or something in the bathroom, and ate it off there because it tasted good (??) and then wrapped the rest in tinfoil and put it in the fridge, which appeared under the sink and when i closed it, we were standing on a dirt road, but also at the same time packed together in the back of a minivan travelling and singing folk music.

and that's just like, 5 minutes of my dream.


Yes, I have a fucked up head.

[exemplary citizen]

Nah, that sounds like pretty normal dreamtime stuff. Like, not even 20 minutes ago (just woke up), I was dreaming that I was some kind of pirate, only I was in some kind of a horserace that went over some dangerous mountains, except that the mountains were really the desert outside of my old house, just on a really large scale. In the end, I was killed, but I managed to drag my body to Disneyland before I exploded into a million pieces, and it was declared a miracle by the Catholic church.

Usually my dream timeline is a little more non-continuous than that, but I've been a lucid dreamer for a really long time and that tends to make it a little more "story-like" on occasion.

[Stevil, yo]

Heh, last night I dreamed that one of my best friends beat the crap out of me because he didn't like my shirt. Then somehow managed to be on an island right after he was done and I was catching crabs (the animal).

[BeastDad1987]

Hookah is very weak. I believe there's no tar and less nicotine, and since the tobacco is heated and not burned, there are less carcingogens produced. Most of what you're inhaling is going to be the fruit/molasses flavoring, not tobacco. You do inhale a lot more than you would a cigarette so you get the buzz, but it's just not as strong.

Ami, the hookah bar I usually go to (well, I've only been to one other) is Gitana in Burbank. It's not the best, but it's relatively cheap ($10 a hookah I think) and the I hear the food is yummy (I've only gotten drinks there). There's another place I went to that looked more, uh, authentic, in whatever town is next to Granada Hills. It's more expensive, and they don't give you your own tongs to mess with the coal, but the environment is a little nicer. I don't remember the name.

[Shaman King]

what.

i don't think so man. that is even more ridiculous that vehement anti-smokers for health reasons. a cigarette isn't even hot enough to catch gasoline on fire.

DARE told me they burn at like three thousand degrees F.

Someone is lying, and I'm pissed.

[Rory Storm]

Mythbusters tested it. The cig doesn't get hot enough to catch gasoline on fire when it falls from your mouth.

[implode]

they had someone stand in a puddle of gasoline and drop a cigarette from their mouth?

shit, i need to start watching TV again.

[Shiv]

Nah, they have all these shitty safety precautions, the muppets. Dun bother.

[MST3Kakalina]

wow. some of you guys are...wow.

"boohoo smoking is bad for you, it should be illegal!"

well, so should being overweight, by that logic. oh, here's a fun fact: <b>if you smoke one pack a day for 20 years and then quit, your chances of getting lung cancer are about .16%</b>. so yeah, maybe one in one thousand will face a health hazard because of smoking that much and while it's always a tragedy, more people than that face health hazards because of other things. i admit i don't know how much it increases when you get to a pack and a half or two a day, but it's safe to say that the risk of cancer from smoking is often exaggerated.

"smoking is a drug, and drugs are bad, mmkay?"

so is caffeine, and yet no one's rushing to criminalize chocolate or coffee. hell, even being in love produces effects very similar to cocaine.


i like being around smokers, as mooseconners can testify, though i understand it can be irritating and impart a bit of a cough to people. maybe some people are bothered by it more than others? during the five weeks i was with Mecha i didn't have a problem outside of the ocassional itching in my throat.

i guess what i'm trying to say is courtesy on both sides of the fence. you're an asshole if you smoke around someone who has asked you to stop and is agitated by it, and you're an asshole if someone taking a smoke break out in the cold rain is such an affront to your health that you need it banned EVERYWHERE.

[KLEIN]

Koba, I'm going to need a source for that statistic there.

[Mecha Wolf]

Actually I told her that statistic. I read a study on cigarette smoking yesterday, and I'll try to find the link again. I did not intend to post it, or I would have bookmarked the page.
I think this references the same study, but I'm not sure.
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/12876.cfm

[töm]

well, so should being overweight, by that logic. oh, here's a fun fact: <b>if you smoke one pack a day for 20 years and then quit, your chances of getting lung cancer are about .16%</b>.then why does <a href=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8942447/site/newsweek/>this article</a> state that your chances of <i>dying</i> of a smoking disease are 50%? that's a little discrepency between figures. even if you abstain for ten years after that, your risk only drops by half. and 25% is a percentage that i might be inclined to put my money on if i were in a casino.

anyway, both of the smorking and anti-smorking lobbies here are presenting weak arguments. i think it's just another example of how people just... think differently. not the different things they think, but the... way they think. hm.

[KLEIN]

Then let me try and simplify it:

Smoking is bad. It is bad for you, and if you smoke, you're likely to get lung cancer, emphysema, or some other malady that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

There are other reasons not to smoke.


Do not try to argue away the health risks surrounding smoking. The facts do not support your views.

[Mecha Wolf]

then why does <a href=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8942447/site/newsweek/>this article</a> state that your chances of <i>dying</i> of a smoking disease are 50%? that's a little discrepency between figures. even if you abstain for ten years after that, your risk only drops by half. and 25% is a percentage that i might be inclined to put my money on if i were in a casino.

anyway, both of the smorking and anti-smorking lobbies here are presenting weak arguments. i think it's just another example of how people just... think differently. not the different things they think, but the... way they think. hm.
Well, I agree with that both lobbies are full of shit, but your reference is a bit off.

"If you smoke a pack a day for 20 years or more, you have a 50 percent chance of dying from smoke-related disease" would be the quote.

That doesn't only count lung cancer, and even in lung cancer smoking is just a factor. If you really think that all "smoke-related deaths" are <i>caused</i> by smoking.... well, you go on and do that.

I find it sad that people need causes to fight for so much that they can't act like reasonable human beings about it. Don't let facts stop you from going on with this thread, though.

[Mecha Wolf]

Then let me try and simplify it:

Smoking is bad. It is bad for you, and if you smoke, you're likely to get lung cancer, emphysema, or some other malady that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

There are other reasons not to smoke.


Do not try to argue away the health risks surrounding smoking. The facts do not support your views.
I don't pretend there are no health risks involved, and I never have. Even less than 1% greater risk than non-smokers is still a risk, and anyone who smokes should consider it. I have, and I still smoke. I'll quit sometime, but not because of some empty cause for people who don't know what they're talking about.

[töm]

i would have to believe that a "smoke related disease," victimizing someone that has smoked for twenty years would, indeed, be caused by smoking. maybe it won't be cancer, but what kills you, kills you.

this also reminds me of something funny that happened in my town recently. so, a man working with the department of public works died. he was up on a cherry picker changing a street lamp, and he got electrocuted and died. SO WE THOUGHT. it turns out that he <i>died of natural causes</i>. he had an overenlarged heart which decided to give out just then. a few seconds before he would be electrocuted to death anyway. isn't that SILLY?

anyway. just a funny story. that swarthy mick.

[Stevil, yo]

That's crazy. I've heard stories of things like that happening before, though.

[Retard Girl]

My viewings on smoking.


Do it outside, and have me out of it. I find the smell offensive, but I don't care if it's outside, At least then it doesn't get all over the house and stink up everything. You people can rot your lungs, or not, but I don't want any part of it.

My dad has brainwashed me into anti-smoking before D.A.R.E. even came to my schools XD.

[beavo]

you can argue that chocolate is just as bad as smoking, but at least chocolate tastes nice and doesn't stink horribly.

[MST3Kakalina]

but things like 'nice' and 'horrible' are subjective. though i don't know how it tastes, i like the smell of tobacco and cigarettes.


smoking certainly isn't good for you, but the media would have you believe that it's a lot worse for you than it actually is.

plus, i imagine a lot of it also stems from the fact that a lot of the people who smoke tend to have other unhealthy habits too: overweight, not enough exercise, drinking. if you smoke, but you keep somewhat fit and eat decently, it's not going to be as bad as the fat, middle-aged boozer drinking his liver to shit after smoking two packs a day. i mean come on you guys.

[Meat Load]

Chocolate actually causes a small release of endorphins. It's more than just the taste, it actually chemically makes you feel good. But it's also not that healthy for you either, so it's more similar to smoking than whoever said that it isn't would have you believe.

[MST3Kakalina]

there are still more chemicals in cigarettes than in chocolate, i imagine. not to mention the cig will last longer than eating a bar of chocolate will.

[Vile]

Doesn't something in dark chocolate lower blood pressure or do SOMETHING heart related that I can't remember?

I probably don't remember. I'm probably thinking of something quite different.

[Meat Load]

Yeah. There's some chemical in it that strengthens your heart or something.

Oddly enough, the same stuff is in red wine, or so I hear.

[beavo]

and guinness has iron in it.

or so they claim....

[Linzoy]

second hand smoke is a fucking joke.

do you know what you are inhaling when you inhale the smoke from a cigarette in the air?

nothing. a smokers lungs take out 99% of the carcinogens out of the smoke. you are inhaling burning paper and water vapor.

it takes 50, 60+ years for avid smokers to develop lung cancer inhaling the full on carcinogens. how long do you think it will take for someone who is huffing the 1% byproduct?Water vapor doesn't make people cough.

I'm a second hand smoker, the smell doesn't sicken me any more. I hardly notice it, so I have nothing to complain about, but I'd never smoke. My lungs are weak enough as it is, I get asthma attacks sometimes. And I have no self control. I've never smoked a whole cigarette but I tried it once, and it didn't feel any worse or better than I imagined breathing smoke would feel like. It wasn't soothing or anything. I think a lot of the reason smokers feel like smoking is stress reducing is because anyone who stops for a few minutes every day and just breaths deliberatly is going to feel better. They'd get the same benefit from playing the penny whistle every time they're bored, except it wouldn't look cool and there are no addictive chemicals in penny whistles. I'm just guessing though.

My uncle is a smoker, but the thing that annoys me about him is that he says I'm wasting my life playing gameboy. Mabye that's true but he's the one smoking, drinking, getting thrown in jail, and flicking my ear every second of his life. I wouldn't really care about any of those things if he didn't have the nerve to point it out every time I'm wasting my life. (All the time.) He's a pretty nice person when he's not drunk, but when he's not drunk he's hung over. That's something I hate a lot more than smoking, drinking. Drunks are stupid and I'll never get used to the smell.

[Stevil, yo]

I'm a second hand smoker, the smell doesn't sicken me any more. I hardly notice it, so I have nothing to complain about, but I'd never smoke. My lungs are weak enough as it is, I get asthma attacks sometimes. And I have no self control. I've never smoked a whole cigarette but I tried it once, and it didn't feel any worse or better than I imagined breathing smoke would feel like. It wasn't soothing or anything. I think a lot of the reason smokers feel like smoking is stress reducing is because anyone who stops for a few minutes every day and just breaths deliberatly is going to feel better. They'd get the same benefit from playing the penny whistle every time they're bored, except it wouldn't look cool and there are no addictive chemicals in penny whistles. I'm just guessing though.

Nah, I have a penny whistle and it's not nearly the same. After you get past the first few times of coughing, it really is soothing. Calms you down ten-fold.

[Linzoy]

It still probably makes you more nervous in the long run, if you get to the point where you need to smoke constantly.

Also I forgot to say that I don't think it's right to compare chocolate to cigarettes. Your body doesn't produce fat and sugar on it's own, but it already has all the nicotine it needs. Being around someone who eats too much won't cause you unreversable weight problems either.

[beavo]

After you get past the first few times of coughing, it really is soothing. Calms you down ten-fold.

that's because you've numbed the nerves down after the first few times, so you don't feel the effect it's actually causing you anymore. that's...not a good thing.

[implode]

Doesn't something in dark chocolate lower blood pressure or do SOMETHING heart related that I can't remember?

I probably don't remember. I'm probably thinking of something quite different. yeah, but in the same breath, <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_096.html">smoking may prevent alzheimer's disease and/or weeks of bloody diarrhea.</a>

Also I forgot to say that I don't think it's right to compare chocolate to cigarettes. Your body doesn't produce fat and sugar on it's own, but it already has all the nicotine it needs. Being around someone who eats too much won't cause you unreversable weight problems either. i suppose you're right in the sense that "chocolate is better than cigarettes because cigarettes have NO nutrients", but that's not really what i was getting at when i compared the two. i was comparing their usage as "comfort" tools. nobody eats chocolate because they're at 1,800 calories on the day and still need 20% of dietary fat to fill up their daily allocation. they eat it because it tastes good and makes them feel good. sure, in moderation it's probably not going to harm you, but the same goes for cigarettes - i was once told by a former family doctor that if you limited your smoking to 3-5 cigarettes a day, the likelihood that they would lead to lung cancer would be almost non-existant. unfortunately, very few people use them this way.

you are allowed to buy as much chocolate (or pork rinds, or whatever, really) you like, and the negative effects of overeating are as well-documented as the effects of smoking. there is no cap on "empty calories", and people are not rushing in to intervene when they see that you've exceeded your limit. it just seems unjust that it happens to smokers and not the overweight - the only valid argument that can be made against smoking, in my opinion, is the potential for harm from "second hand smoke." so, whatever, yank smoking from buildings - i can deal with that. but making them completely unavailable seems to be picking on a select group of people that have habits that the general population finds more undesireable than others. which is crap. if you're going to worry about the health of people who are not you, you should at least do so indiscriminately.

[Linzoy]

People who are overweight don't usually get that way from eating chocolate though, it's a lot of meat and greasy fried food. You can't point a finger at one thing only when it comes to obesity, and being fat is still something that most people don't die from. I can understand why people are so angry at tobacco because it's entirely the tobacco’s fault, you can't blame cars, stupid portion sizes at restaurants, limited self control. Cigarettes control your life in a way that eating never can. I get really irritable if I skip eating, but I don't feel sick and I don't become obsessed with food, I just feel bad. I don't really care if smoking is legal or not. It's not a big deal, it's a little thing on the long list of things that might kill everybody, but still, comparing it to food just seems kind of self delusional. I wasn't trying to point out the nutritional value of chocolate, but chocolate is normal and there are natural reasons for eating it. Your body isn't built to be around smoke, it's an accident of nature. To eat so much that it's a handicap you have to be a real freak. It takes a lot of time and energy to eat that much food, which is why you see a lot of fat people, but not a lot of fat people who are so fat they drive a little electric wheelchair thing everywhere. Almost anyone who smokes daily is going to become addicted because it's much easier, nobody only smokes on social occasions or whatever. Also people say obesity causes heart attacks and high blood pressure and stuff, but perfectly normal health aware people can get those things. I don't think normal people can get really weak lungs, yellow teeth, and shaky hands before their forties.

I don't think people who are opinionated about the bad effects about cigarettes are really concerned about your general health and happiness. They're concerned because they know you're gonna die. Most people are related to someone or know someone who's died of lung cancer, and they don't want the kids of future parents to go through anything like that. A lot of people really don't understand that cigarettes kill you. People smoke until they're told they have cancer, and they quit right away, but it's too late by then. A lot of people quit when jennings died. (according to fox news, they are always right.) It's like they didn't understand that smoking would kill you before they saw a celebrity die from it. It seems like a lot of smokers are quitting in a week. Maybe they really believe that, or maybe they just don't want anyone to bother them about it, I don't know.

[KLEIN]

You're so wishy-washy, Linzoy.

[Linzoy]

Yeah, I like to talk without coming to any conclusions, that way no one can ever argue with me. But I still get to talk.

[KLEIN]

It's talking to hear the sound of your own voice.

Cut it out.

[implode]

People who are overweight don't usually get that way from eating chocolate though, it's a lot of meat and greasy fried food. it was an example. forgive me. You can't point a finger at one thing only when it comes to obesity, and being fat is still something that most people don't die from. I can understand why people are so angry at tobacco because it's entirely the tobacco’s fault, you can't blame cars, stupid portion sizes at restaurants, limited self control. of course you can. that's a ridiculous argument - of COURSE you could blame limited self control. it is not tobacco's fault for existing, it's your fault for indulging in it. Cigarettes control your life in a way that eating never can. I get really irritable if I skip eating, but I don't feel sick and I don't become obsessed with food, I just feel bad. you have no idea what you're talking about. you don't smoke. I don't really care if smoking is legal or not. It's not a big deal, it's a little thing on the long list of things that might kill everybody, but still, comparing it to food just seems kind of self delusional. maybe a bit, but the point that i was trying to illustrate was that it was a vice, an activity that is not beneficial to anyone but your own piece of mind that you do anyway, just like sweets. i wasn't making the case that they are equally harmful to a human body. was i? I wasn't trying to point out the nutritional value of chocolate, but chocolate is normal and there are natural reasons for eating it. Your body isn't built to be around smoke, it's an accident of nature. To eat so much that it's a handicap you have to be a real freak. It takes a lot of time and energy to eat that much food, which is why you see a lot of fat people, but not a lot of fat people who are so fat they drive a little electric wheelchair thing everywhere. heh. okay. Almost anyone who smokes daily is going to become addicted because it's much easier, nobody only smokes on social occasions or whatever. i know someone on this messageboard who does. Also people say obesity causes heart attacks and high blood pressure and stuff, but perfectly normal health aware people can get those things. I don't think normal people can get really weak lungs, yellow teeth, and shaky hands before their forties. oh, COME ON. "people say that falling through thin ice can drown you, but perfectly normal people drown without the help of ice." that doesn't make the fact that you're walking on thin ice any less dangerous. and, if we discard the "perfectly normal" attribute (which is impossible to define, i would imagine) you certainly could get all those things without the aid of smoking. coffee, for example, will give you two of them, and lung cancer appears without the help of smoking just like high blood pressure and heart attacks.

I don't think people who are opinionated about the bad effects about cigarettes are really concerned about your general health and happiness. They're concerned because they know you're gonna die. Most people are related to someone or know someone who's died of lung cancer, and they don't want the kids of future parents to go through anything like that. A lot of people really don't understand that cigarettes kill you. People smoke until they're told they have cancer, and they quit right away, but it's too late by then. A lot of people quit when jennings died. (according to fox news, they are always right.) It's like they didn't understand that smoking would kill you before they saw a celebrity die from it. It seems like a lot of smokers are quitting in a week. Maybe they really believe that, or maybe they just don't want anyone to bother them about it, I don't know. i cannot accept that as truth. it seems too ludicrous to believe that a habit that makes you cough all the time could be misidentified as something that isn't harmful. it seems too ludicrous to believe that the only product that EXPLICITLY STATES that it will kill you on the pack could be misidentified as something that won't kill you. if THAT'S why the people are giving us shit, i'm even angrier at the insult of my intelligence. if the problem is that you don't want me to die, aw, how sweet, but if the problem is that <i>you don't think i understand that it will kill me</i> then i have a few choice words for you.

[Linzoy]

I wasn't talking about you speicifically, but I think there are people out there who just don't get it.

[implode]

then they deserve what they get. of all the things that might kill you, smoking takes a backseat only to "shark attacks" and "picking fights with gang members" when it comes to publicity.

blegh, i had a joke about sharks all prepared, but i'm not in the mood to make jokes. that death thread brought me down.

[brokensirunit]

smoking is bad, except for black & milds. they smell good.

[AngryGoatFace]

<font face="trebuchet MS">*cough* jeffrey wigand *cough*</font>

[Stevil, yo]

smoking is bad, except for black & milds. they smell good.

Exceptionally good. ^_^