Man Or Astroman Saves The World

[exemplary citizen]

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/pogopop/biodieselMOAM.html


Let us discuss Biodiesel. By all accounts, it should be incredibly feasable to switch over the majority of this counry's fuel consumption to this alternative, and all using existing infrastructure while boosting agricultural growth to boot. It's a rapidly growing segment of the alternative fuels market now, not to mention it signals at least the beginning of the end for dependence on forign petroleum. Of course, this would mean the phasing out of gasoline engines. If you had the ready cash, would you buy a car capable of burning Biodiesel? And if you have a diesel car, would you plunk down the thousand bucks for the conversion?

[KLEIN]

I don't know about Biodiesel, but alternative fuels are a good idea.

Biodiesel would quickly become a very limited fuel. There's not enough grease to run 100 million cards.

[MST3Kakalina]

i was just thinking about this the other day. if i had a diesel car (which i don't), i would definitely get someone to convert it to run on vegetable oil. the only problem is that converting the enging like that really fucks with insurance and warranties and such, making it harder to get serviced.

but whatever, i'm only stuck here for another three years. afterwards i'll move to Sweden and use nothing but my own two feet and public transportation.

"I try not to talk about it, but I can't help it sometimes. I was at this party the other night and I could hear this conversation going on about Bush and about the war and the dependency on foreign oil. And I just couldn't help it.

"I went over there and said, 'Do you drive a car?' The guy said, 'Well, uh, yeah.' I say, 'Then shut up!' People whine and bitch about the war and Bush, but they don't do anything about it. They just whine."

exactly! there were ads all over my campus for a trip down to DC to protest the war.

uh, sure. go drive your gas guzzling coach bus down to DC, make placards with petroluem based markers, whine and bitch for a couple hours, and then spend MORE gas on the trip back up. way to absolve yourself of guilt and make the problem WORSE at the same time.

[Davey Rootbeer]

automotive industries control america.

Automotive industries are opposed to change. Automotive industries won't let anyone other than automotive industries determine an altrernative source of fuel.

even if new fuel = less pollution, cheaper, more efficient, automotive companies would be forced to change.

why do you think it took over 50 years for them to manufacture cars that ran on something called "UNLEADED ONLY". (mid 1970's, this happened. They knew lead was bad in the 20's. the PR for leaded fuels was spectacular, though, and held up for 50 years. Meanwhile, after 50 years of fighting against environmentalists and etc, automotive industries is pushed to the point where they have to eliminate leaded fuels. )

my point is, they ain't going to change overnight. Unless some guy named Nader becomes president.


I think we all know his exploits in automotive industries.

[exemplary citizen]

I don't know about Biodiesel, but alternative fuels are a good idea.

Biodiesel would quickly become a very limited fuel. There's not enough grease to run 100 million cards.
Well, they're not supposed to run exclusively on greasetrap leavings. That's not the only source of biodiesel fuel (you're probably thinking of www.greasecar.com). If you travel on over to our good friend <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Base_oils>Wikipedia</a>, it talks about how agricultural resources like soybeans and algae would be converted into biodiesel. So effectively, a portion of America's farms would be <i>growing</i> fuel.


so why don't you read up on the material i post next time, dumby mcdumberson.

[exemplary citizen]

automotive industries control america.

Automotive industries are opposed to change. Automotive industries won't let anyone other than automotive industries determine an altrernative source of fuel.

even if new fuel = less pollution, cheaper, more efficient, automotive companies would be forced to change.

why do you think it took over 50 years for them to manufacture cars that ran on something called "UNLEADED ONLY". (mid 1970's, this happened. They knew lead was bad in the 20's. the PR for leaded fuels was spectacular, though, and held up for 50 years. Meanwhile, after 50 years of fighting against environmentalists and etc, automotive industries is pushed to the point where they have to eliminate leaded fuels. )
Well, if there <i>is</i> enough push from the public change can happen again. I mean, hell, if the car-buying public can prove that there is at least a hefty economic viablity for alternative fuel cars (Honda and Toyota are kind of starting to figure that out, and I'm beginning to see quite a few CNG-converted cars out on the road here in L.A.) then the companies will go where the money is. If people don't change their purchasing habits though, we'll keep rolling out these enourmous fucking armored tank vehicles that get 10 miles to the gallon and are used to transport three people on average.

[argonaut]

What a horrid article. Good subject, and hits its points well, but did they have to wrap it in to much crap? Third-tier rockstar moved by hatred of the president to save the world... please.

When I bought my last car I promised myself my next one would use green technology, for pretty much the reasons espoused in this thread. It's one thing to give lip service to the issue, which I do often enough. It's another to act on it.

Up until now I've been planning to get the Civic hybrid, or the Accord if I can find the extra five grand. While biodiesel seems an even cleaner alternative, I don't think I would, right now, commit to it. I depend on my car too much to rely on semi-existant infrastructure to fuel it. I don't want to make regular rounds to fast food restuarants and set up a filtering system in my garage. It's too much for me to bother with. I'll get the hybrid this time, and hope that by the time I'm ready for my next car there will be real alternative choices.

I will, however, pay more for green energy. I get my electricity from a company who only uses clean sources (in my case, wind and hydro). It costs a little more, but not too much.

A basic rule for entrepreneurs is that a new product is best pulled by the consumers, not pushed onto them. You can't expect the government to legislate demand, for one thing it won't work, and for the other the government caters to the supply side. Energy companies are there to make money; whether or not it makes sense environmentally is of secondary concern. If the demand grows large enough, they will fall over themselves grabbing their share of the market.

I've long been of the opinion that we should divorce ourselves economically from the Middle East, let the eat their own sand for a while and then see what they think of us and our money. I find the recent jump in oil prices encouraging, as it gets people thinking about other choices, and nudges the demand in that direction.

[implode]

i think it's a fine idea and all, but i kind of agree with argo in the whole "moved by the hatred of the president" concept. like, the part where he was like "i usually keep my mouth shut, but i couldn't stand it anymore and said: "OMG DO U DRIVE A CAR? YESH? THEN SHUT UP SUCKAAAA." all i could think about was if he asked <i>me</i> that question, i'd be like "no." and he'd have to reevaluate his whole "i will prove that i am better than you" strategy. making people feel bad may be an effective way to get your point across, but really, it's kind of snotty and portrays you as a rude, elitist asshole.

[exemplary citizen]

See, <i>this</i> is good conversation. I knew I could count on you two. :<3:

i think it's a fine idea and all, but i kind of agree with argo in the whole "moved by the hatred of the president" concept. like, the part where he was like "i usually keep my mouth shut, but i couldn't stand it anymore and said: "OMG DO U DRIVE A CAR? YESH? THEN SHUT UP SUCKAAAA." all i could think about was if he asked me that question, i'd be like "no." and he'd have to reevaluate his whole "i will prove that i am better than you" strategy. making people feel bad may be an effective way to get your point across, but really, it's kind of snotty and portrays you as a rude, elitist asshole.

Not to mention that he's got zero room to talk unless he rode a bike to all his social events up until that point. Then he'd be elitist <i>and</i> reek of B.O.

Up until now I've been planning to get the Civic hybrid, or the Accord if I can find the extra five grand. While biodiesel seems an even cleaner alternative, I don't think I would, right now, commit to it. I depend on my car too much to rely on semi-existant infrastructure to fuel it. I don't want to make regular rounds to fast food restuarants and set up a filtering system in my garage. It's too much for me to bother with. I'll get the hybrid this time, and hope that by the time I'm ready for my next car there will be real alternative choices.

YES. My feelings exactly. I'm not even close to being in the market for a new car at all (let alone an alt-fuel one), but you can bet your ass that one day soon I'll be going for the hybrids (until a better alternative comes along). The hybrid cars tend to be the most viable simply <i>because</i> they don't require any additional infrastructure, unlike that largely failed experiment with "electric" cars a few years back -- there's still a few abandoned charging stations lying around here and there, I wonder if they still operate at all.

One of my good buddies' family bought a Prius when those first came out. Dear god, that is a wonderful vehicle. We took it out test driving one weekend, and we were actually able to beat a couple of guys in their rice burners off the line without even kicking in the gas engine. And he manages about 74mpg on average, which would be a godsend out here (I get to deal with an 80 mile commute each day, whee, gas prices are driving me into bankruptcy).

I will, however, pay more for green energy. I get my electricity from a company who only uses clean sources (in my case, wind and hydro). It costs a little more, but not too much.We have that option out here, too. It was funny, when I used to commute back and forth between Tucson and L.A. to visit my sweetie, I'd pass those big banks of windmills right around Indio and wonder "gee, I wonder how I can get in on that grid". Turns out, our power supplier offers that as an option, with a slight markup.

I tell you what I'm really itching for, though. Viable solar power for the consumer market. Aforementioned friend with the Prius again; his family is ten kinds of green-gadgetry friendly (and with a fair bit of "green" to drop on those kinds of ventures), and recently installed solar panels and suchlike to heat their house in the winter. During the summer months, they still manage to draw power off the grid at a slightly reduced rate than your average house. But come around December, he took me out back to look at their meter, and it was the damndest thing... it was putting power <i>back on the grid</i>. The electric company actually <b>pays</b> them a few dollars a month during the house's peak operating season.

I want me summa <i>that</i>.

[MST3Kakalina]

i think it's a fine idea and all, but i kind of agree with argo in the whole "moved by the hatred of the president" concept. like, the part where he was like "i usually keep my mouth shut, but i couldn't stand it anymore and said: "OMG DO U DRIVE A CAR? YESH? THEN SHUT UP SUCKAAAA." all i could think about was if he asked <i>me</i> that question, i'd be like "no." and he'd have to reevaluate his whole "i will prove that i am better than you" strategy. making people feel bad may be an effective way to get your point across, but really, it's kind of snotty and portrays you as a rude, elitist asshole.
i dunno. maybe it's obnoxious of him, but people are bitching about the lifestyle and yet continuing to contribute to it. the local news did a bit over the summer about high gas prices, and the guy was interviewing a lady next to some fatass SUV:

"Are you upset by high gas prices?"
"Yes, absolutely. It's ridiculous."
"Are you willing to give up your SUV?"
"No way."

that's pretty much verbatim what happened. shit like that makes me angrier than anything.

[Forever Finite]

what gets ME is that in cities like mine, where it takes half an hour or more to get anywhere because it's so spread out, there is hardly any focus on the public transportation system. it's so inefficient that you pretty much HAVE to own a car to go about supporting yourself with a job. unless, of course, you're willing to wake up at 5 AM and spend two and a half hours riding and waiting for several busses to get to work and then doing the same thing to get back.

fucking stupid.

[MST3Kakalina]

move to sweden with me, Finny.

[Forever Finite]

i will.

don't say that koba, i will do it.

[the Worms]

Actually, I'm seriously considering getting back into physics and engineering, just so I can work on alternate fuel sources (nuclear fusion has always fascinated me).

Keep in mind Mecha's disappointment in the school systems in Sweden, guys. Every social structure has disadvantages.

[homeostasis]

The problem with all the alternative energy sources is the age old adage which came first the chicken or the egg? In order for people to go fuel cells or biodiesel or whatever there needs to be a way for them to conveniently get the fuel but noone is going to setup the infastructure until there are people who need the alternate fuel choice and car manufacturers arent going to make the cars until the demand is there. Honestly there probably does need to be some kind of government intervention to get this ball rolling. We arent going to see it come out of this administration because the guy in charge is in bed with the oil industry.

Im glad I live in a city that actually does have public trans. For the most part I can get to any part of Chicago at any time of the day or night. The trains run on most lines 24/7 and buses usually go till midnight or later depending on the line. Theres a website to goto where you can put in your starting point and ending point and itll tell you what your public trans route is. Chicago also is fairly bike friendly, though Im somewhat turned off to that due to the fact that everyone who bikes seems to have a accident story, and the buses and trains allow you to take the bikes with you. The best part of it all is when you blaze by all the people on the highway and can laugh as you can sit and relax instead of gas brake honking all the way home.

[Forever Finite]

i would love the opportunity to ride my bike all over the place, but it's really hard to do it safely here, even in the suburbs. it's like they outlawed sidewalks or something and the only place to be is in the road.

[KLEIN]

Texas is mostly horrible.

America-land.

[Forever Finite]

i've tried riding an inner tube to florida, but they keep returning me to my owners.

man, this sucks. i'll <I>never</i> be a REAL boy.

[homeostasis]

I thought you had to goto california for that